Thursday, August 30, 2007

What's Worse? Lying or Exposing the Lie?

A recurrent theme that is echoing through the LC community is that the anti-kimkins bloggers are the "bad people" in this issue.

Why is that, I wonder.

What is really worse, having someone lie their way into a million dollars, potentially killing people in the process, or exposing those lies?

Why do the Kimkinistas hold the bloggers to higher standards than their own Kimmer? (note - we hold ourselves to higher standards, lol, but we don't hear you complaining about Kimmer! Only about us!)

Let's look at one example - This is a comment that was left on the kkatastrophediet blog -

My notes are in red.

On August 30, 2007 at 4:54 pm zebra Said:
I appreciate your point of view and since you approach your blog with far more integrity than the others, perhaps you’ll allow a different view.

Integrity? How can you follow Kimmer's example yet still lay claim to the term INTEGRITY? Isn't being honest a sign of integrity? Isn't putting concern for others ahead of oneself a sign of integrity? How exactly does that not apply to the bloggers, yet apply to Kimmer?

I am a Kimkins member, following the diet plan as written for several months with no ill effects and an excellent weight loss to date. For me, the website is about a diet and a private support network - it is not about 1 person.

One person is controlling the website, editing and deleting posts, banning members for speaking out with questions and concerns. One person is making HUGE claims that cannot be verified and some that have been PROVEN to be lies.

Since you followed the eating plan and presumably did so in a healthy manner, you must be aware that the Kimkins diet is easily followed, without tweaking, in a manner that any doctor could approve.

Hmm, we've shown the diet, as written, to several doctors. None of them approved. Where do you get this data from?

Despite many posts to the contrary, Kimkins per se is not limited to 710 calories.

There are 5 different plans in Kimkins. The standard issue plan is 710 calories, generously adding an allowance for more fat than "needed to make the menu work". Again, where are you getting your data? Don't just make a claim, PROVE IT!

Which brings me to this whole calorie/fat issue slammed on the anti-Kimkins threads on LCF, the Active LowCarber forum and some of the other blogs. Why are people adopting a mainstream nutritional guideline of 1200 calories minimum while at the same time ignoring mainstream guidelines of maximum calories, recommendations to eat lower fat (especially lower saturated fats), and recommended protein levels. Low carb eating as a whole is based on the premise that it’s not all about calories. And even in mainstream nutrition circles, all the numbers are based on averages for healthy people, not absolutes that apply to everyone. I can eat plenty of nutritious food for 700 or 800 calories or I can eat horribly unhealthy food for 1200 or 1500 calories. So can anyone else (and they do, as evidenced by many threads on LCF and ALC). The assumption that more than 20,000 people are all eating long term vLCD, taking stimulant laxatives, doing diet coke fasts and never once seeing their doctors is bizarre to say the least.

The only person making assumptions here, is this comment author. A diet that consists of 800 calories or less is, BY DEFINITION, a VLCD. We do not assume that EVERY Kimkins member abuses laxatives, though many do! We do not assume that EVERY Kimkins member uses "diet coke fasts" (thank goodness!). We do not assume that NO Kimkins member ever sees their doctor. If that is what you think we are saying, then you need to read the information more closely.

With respect to the teenager, as Deni posted, the girl was being monitored by Deni herself and by her own account, by her mother.

Neither of which are medically trained professionals. Please remember also that Kimmer herself said that she does not allow teenagers on her website, which, obviously, is untrue.

What do you think this girl learned by the theft of her words and photos and posting of those on places where she had no intention of putting them? A fine example of caring and concern that was, by adults (I use the term loosly as the behaviour is not very adult-like), many with children of their own.

It is less caring to expose the issue before she ends up harmed than it is to overlook it and enable the dangerous pattern to continue? Intervention! Some of us care so much about this girl that we REALLY want her to stop what she is doing and seek professional care! Some people are more concerned about their membership numbers.

But is it even about the diet itself? Some say yes, some say no. Some people say yes at one time and no at another.

Yes, this is about the diet itself AND about Kimmer's manipulative lies and fraud.

So maybe it’s just about Kimmer? Motivated by what, really - past differences on LCF? Jealousy that she’s making money? I don’t know and it doesn’t really matter.

The standard Kimkinista comeback - "you're just jealous!" Sorry, Zebra, this has already been said about 4,000 times. Next!

If there’s a legitimate fraud of some sort, please gather actual and factual evidence and present it to appropriate authorities.

I have! Not to worry! :D

Don’t just blog and post about things that have no basis in fact or truth and/or are not even relevant in the first place. What does a person’s past marital problems or financial problems have to do with anything?

I don't "just blog and post about things". I blog and post about things that I am taking action on. I uncovered the lie that Kimmer is a C.A.S.A. and I reported it to the appropriate authorities. Her marital problems and financial situation are highly relevant as they contradict many things she has said as well as point to the possibility that she is defrauding the U.S. Government! You CANNOT collect disability insurance and make a million dollars at the same time! That's YOUR tax dollars being stolen! I'm amazed that you don't care about this.

And involving other people and posting about their personal things? Kimmer’s children?

Personal things that Kimmer has LIED about repeatedly - this is important, as you yourself claim that INTEGRITY is important in any endeavor. Kimmer's "children" (at least Brandon) are involved in the "business". Brandon's name is listed as the registrar of the website. That is highly relevant. It may not be nice to have to admit that Kimmer would use her own children that way, but that doesn't mean it's not true!

Deni? Christin? and now starting on new admins? And Jimmy Moore - the first victim? What does maligning these people do?

Deni and Christin and new admins are potentially liable for the dangerous information and other legal violations taking place on the Kimkins website. Jimmy Moore admitted himself that he was a victim of KIMMER, not the bloggers. He thanked those that helped him to see the error of his ways in regards to his promotion of Kimkins.

So to all the shock bloggers, LCF and ALC I say put your money where your mouth is. Hire an investigator.

Done! :D

Post facts and evidence if you have them and/or can get them.

I have! You either haven't read them or want to believe they aren't "facts" because facing the truth is just too painful!

Tell us who you are if you’re so honest and above board and show some proof, some expert evidence about photos, anything concrete. Then let the chips fall where they may.

I'm not asking you to send me money. I'm not asking you to believe that I lost 200 pounds in 11 months and have kept it off for 5 years without proving it. However, I will tell you who I am in 10 days, maybe. :D

Until I see something besides gossip and garbage, I can only see zebras when I hear the hoofbeats.

If you haven't seen anything besides gossip and garbage, then you haven't been paying attention! :)

I'd like to see something besides gossip and garbage from KIMMER and the Kimkins Members that keep attacking the bloggers!

PROVE to me that Kimkins diet plans are safe! SHOW me the evidence! PROVE to me that Kimmer is NOT a liar and a fraud!

I have given you evidence. I have shown you some of the lies. I have given you medical evidence proving that her diet plans ARE NOT safe for long term use. I've done my part. Now it's time to do yours.

Anonymous said...

Don't you think that some of these comments are from Kimmer herself? Trying to turn it around on the people that are uncovering the truth. Keep up the good work with your investigation. This woman needs to be made accountable.

Kimkins Dangers said...

Yes! I definitely think that a lot of the comments around the web are from Kimmer herself! :)

However, for someone new to the issue, to be able to read a long comment like that and then a long reply can be an educational experience, lol.

I don't really think that "zebra's" comment was Kimmer, doesn't sound like her at all, though "zebra" parrots a lot of the common Kimmerisms! (You're jealous! etc)

KimPossible said...

Couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks for that! :) Can't wait!

Anonymous said...

Did you really hire a PI? Now there's something a lot of us would throw sixty bucks at! You might consider accepting donations to help out with the cost. Hats off to you.

Kimkins Dangers said...

Watch the blog tomorrow for information about the Kimkins Investigation and ways you can take part in the effort! :D

That's all I can say right now.. though its hard to sit quietly on this til the time is right! :D

zebra said...

Funny, I don't remember posting here - must not be eating enough...

Kimkins Dangers said...

Zebra, see? This is your problem. You don't really READ the blogs, you just assume! (You know what they say about assuming!)

If you had actually READ this post, you'd have seen this line at the top:

"Let's look at one example - This is a comment that was left on the kkatastrophediet blog -"

Now geeze, go eat something! We don't want our readers to faint with hunger!

Anonymous said...

Some people have to do a low calorie to lose at reasonable rates. Maybe you can eat 1200-1500 calories a day and see fat loss but others have to drop lower as well as exercise to see results. Thank you.

Kimkins Dangers said...

"Reasonable rates" is subjective.

If one needs to eat less than 1000 calories a day to lose weight, they NEED to be under STRICT medical supervision - NOT under Heidi's supervision!

OhYeahBabe said...

Don't let Kimmer get away with her lies! Encourage people who were members of Kimkins to join the Kimkins lawsuit!

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